We’ve had some issues with home security recently, so before anything serious happens I bought a Q-See QSD2316C16-500 DVR from Costco. The system is a network DVR setup that comes with 16 cameras (8 standard + 8 wide angle) for $1000.
The whole reason I looked into buying this setup is that it was cheap. It was a pretty good deal since the cameras run about $50-$80 a piece anyway. Hooking up the system and using the onscreen menu was fairly easy. The problem I have with this “network” DVR is the direction Q-See went with their network interface design and software development.
When it comes to network connected video devices, I’m used to the concept of streaming. I’m used to IP video cameras that streaming technologies like MJPEG and MPEG. While the QSD2316C16-500 DVR locally records analog video using the H.264 compression codec, it does not stream video in any kind of standard format over the network interface.
The DVR does have a web interface, but it is simply is a launchpad for an ActiveX component. This limits you to accessing the DVR via a Windows PC running Internet Explorer. Furthermore, the ActiveX component is highly unstable. It crashes on all but a couple of my several PCs (I have around 10 or so I use at any given time). They also have mobile options if you are running a phone/PDA with Windows Mobile or Symbian OS, but alas I have a BlackBerry so my options for mobile monitoring are nonexistent.
After some Googling and poking around on the DVR’s “web interface” (really its just web launched software app), I determined I couldn’t even pull a live static JPG snapshot from any of the cameras, let alone get a decent video stream. I called Q-See tech support to find out if there was a developer toolkit or SDK or even just some documentation on how the DVR’s network interface worked, but got shutdown immediately. There is no SDK, and in no way did they want to help me figure out if what I was after was even possible. Their approach to software is very confusing to me, being they are a hardware manufacturer that makes money selling hardware, not software. Why not focus on the internal software (menus, features, etc.) and open up the network side so the combined power of end users and future customers will prop up your web side features (for free), and ultimately boost hardware sales?
I found the “Contact a Manager” section on their website and wrote the following:
I want Q-See to open up documentation for the DVR command and video streaming methods. That, or introduce standard web streaming technologies like MJPEG or MPEG video streams, and utilize those streaming technologies via a standardized web interface. This ActiveX component is ridiculously limiting, and very unstable. I can only get it (and the CMS) to work properly on one out of 5 computers. At the very minimum, an SDK would be nice so a guy could create a proper web streaming server.
If this is something Q-See management would like to discuss in further detail, I’m always available with an opinion 😉
I really don’t get why they didn’t create a standard web interface in the first place. I would think it would capture more market share and cost less to dev and support than a wonky ActiveX component. I wonder what their response will be, if any.
Absolutly agree with you. Having SDK or at least API documented would not harm Q-See, moreover will help them sell product.
For example they implemented remote backup, but it is not sufficient. For instanse lets imagine that intruder has stollen DVR with other valuables. It makes all this records useless.
Adding functionality to send data to remote ftp,e-mail box or what ever on alarm event could bring peace of mind.
Wish Q-See to change their mind.
Hi Sergiy,
I hope you have also filled out the contact form on their website. The more requests they get from customers (and potential customers), the more likely they will be to offer these things. Please send them your comments!
I have 22 unhappy clients so I just sent the following to Q-See:
I am writing to inform you that I like your product very much and own a QSD2316L and am in the business of recommending such products to all of my clients.
I have to date recommend to 30 of my clients this particular unit and they have purchased and installed them into their businesses within the last 20 days.
I am respectfully requesting an SDK or API be made available for our development purposes. Your current ActiveX control crashes horribly on 7 out of 10 pc’s that meet your requirements. We are very limited to handheld viewing as you don’t support Blackberry RIM or other non-ActiveX browsers.
The bottom line is I have 22 out of 30 clients whom I recommended these units to who are very unhappy that another viewing solution is not available and the only option I can offer them is to return all the units (22) at this point to the various online sources they purchased them from for a refund and switch to another manufacturers dvr.
Please advise as to your solution to this problem. I like the products but you are about to have a loss of $17,000 retail or whatever your real costs breaks down to.
On Monday, June 1, 2009 I am instructing all of my clients to return their units, I hope to hear from you by then.
Hopefully they divulge something to save my clients from returning their units.
Thanks for posting, and for taking action. Please update us if you do get a response!
Any updates? I too am looking for an alternate viewing solution. I was hoping I could leverage an API like you guys were discussing. I have been trying all sorts of things to get the feed on my Blackberry Storm. I have even tried my SlingBox (of course they do not have a working client for the storm) :-(. There has got to be a way to hijack this feed!
Well, no updates yet. Did you contact Q-See and harass them? I wouldn’t expect much to be honest, but the more peopole asking, the more likely it is we will get some movement out of them.
I did try using an iPEPs device (http://www.adder.com/uk/products/IPEPS.aspx) which is basically a KVM box that outputs to a VNC connection rather than a monitor and keyboard. It works really well for remotely accessing a system or server from outside the machine, and I figured I could use it to access the Q-See. I did get a video stream from it, but the keyboard and mouse connections did not work properly with the Q-See, so really all I could do with it was watch the available video stream. I couldn’t select cameras or the manipulate the menu.
Thank you for this site and information provided on the Q-See CCTV DVR System. The more who know about the problems it is having the better.
Have any one of you had problems with the LAN on the back of the DVR? The LAN LED on my QSD2316L doesn’t turn on when connected to my LAN. The LAN cable and the network are ok since I can navigate the internet with them and my laptot with no proble, but the DVR don’t get conected as if its Ethernet interface was not working. I already send QSee one DVR for warranty and got it back with the same problem. Then they sent me anotherone and it’s just the same.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Sounds to me like a switch problem. What is the LAN cable connected to besides the DVR? Is it a network switch? A simple network hub? A port on a cable or DSL modem?
Also, when you say “the laptop works”, does that mean you disconnected the LAN cable from the DVR and used that same cable to connect to your laptop and try surfing (while also turning wifi off if you have wifi)?
Try getting what’s called a “crossover” cable. They are hard to find now because most ports on most network switch equipment can auto-sense and adjust, but if you are using older network equipment or network equipment that can’t auto-sense port type, you might need a cross-over.
Also, another issue might be port speed. But that is unlikely… most network gear can handle 10/100 speeds, and network equipment that uses 1000Mb ports can automatically slow down to 10/100 if need be.
I just bought and installed the 2316L and upgraded the firmware to the latest release with all the same issues (as far as only being able to connect remotely from certain select computers). I’ve also noticed that the unit does not really like ie 7 or 8 too well, but ie 6 seems to work ok for the most part. I am pretty frustrated that so many people are having the same issue (which means q-see is making money from purchased units) but they are not supporting the revenue source. I did send them a message and will gladly return this lemon if the problem is not resolved soon.
Just recently purchased a higher end Q-SEE DVR and I am quite disappointed that you are not able to remote access via the BlackBerry Bold. Would have thought there would be some other way than using the sling box mentioned above to access and view.
Don’t think I’m going to get much in the way of support from Q-SEE on this. So if anyone happens to find out a solution to this I would be happy to hear from you.
I bought the same 16-camera Q-See Coscto special about a year ago and am thoroughly disappointed with the software. That ActiveX control is not only unstable, it’s unsigned; which means you have to disable a few security features on Internet Explorer to get it to work.
Does anybody else see the irony in this?
To say that Q-see’s software is horrible would be an understatement.The fact that they released this product with a lousy web interface that forces the user to install an unsigned control speaks volumes about the quality of their products. I too have longed for an SDK, but I am about ready to give up on the DVR and just put together an inexpensive Windows box with a (non Q-see) capture card; and something along the lines of Argus DVR Security software.
By the way, Argus is pretty darn nice. A little expensive, but very nice.
In the meantime, I am not sure if any of the readers here are aware that there’s a piece of software on Q-see’s web site called CMS (Control Center). It can be found under the DVR downloads section next to the DVR model you own. It’s another classic example of shoddy software design but far far better than the web interface.
Just a word of caution though; CMS may or may not run on your Windows 7 system. I’ve gotten it to work on three out of six Win 7 machines on my home network. Q-See tells me Win 7 is not supported and they won’t be releasing an update for it until March 2010. It seems they could care less about Win 7 and their customers.
Also, if you have an HTPC attached to your big screen running Win 7, CMS will error on startup because it thinks your monitor is running at less than 1024 x 768. My HTPC is running at 1950 x 1080. Another huge disappointment.
It’s pretty sad. I like the DVR, the cameras are pretty decent, but the whole setup is really worthless because of lousy software.
Oh yeah, I am a Blackberry user as well and most of us already know the story on that.
Yeah, I bought the package deal (DVR+16 cams) from Costco. I think the price was something like $900 or around there, which is ok I guess. All the cameras are wired analog so what I’ve decided to do is “T” off the camera BNCs and run two DVRs; the Q-See sits in my kitchen cupboard and basically provides in-house viewable security by just opening the door and using the IR remote. The NRV (network video recorder) is a slimline WinXP machine that is hidden up in the attic and also receives all the camera signals off the “T”. I use this machine for alerting and remote monitoring, as well as off-site transport of video files, just in case an arsonist burns my house down or something. I’m using Exacq right now because the web interface does not require an ActiveX, but it’s a little clunky sometimes… I may check out Argus since it supposedly now has face recognition built in, which is pretty damn cool if you ask me.
It is interesting to know I am not alone with problems with the 2316 q-see product. I bought mine from tiger direct not costco and paid 300.00 more and got 8 cameras less and only 320vs 500gig hard drive. It was actually a Q-see employee in cust service who told me about costco being cheaper.
It arrived in a 16 chanel box but had a 4 chanel faceplate, the chassis was missing screws, the IR receiver does not work, (no remote)and the thing shuts off recording on its own whim. The mouse is really jerky. I ran an IR scan and the remotes are not the problem.
Q-see says it will repair the unit, but in light of how many problems a 3 week-old DVR already has, I opted for an exchange.
Both Tiger and Q-see refuse to honor exchanges, Tiger claims because I paid with Paypal there are no exchanges.
Q-see says we fix our own (China made)
I have other DVRs by q-see, one blew a PSU 3 months after purchase, I installed an old atx unit on top and it works fine 3 years running.
Really have to wonder if this Q-see (digital peripheral solutions) is the future or the past for me. I’m thinking past for sure.
yeah, it’s definitely the past for me. my DVR is still working for me, but the lack of features makes it basically a dumb (no slick features) local recording device. I’ve since opted to put a BNC T connector on each camera and run the feeds to both the Q-See DVR and a couple ACTi network video servers like the 240Q. The network video server allows me to set up a network NVR (network video recorder) anywhere on the LAN, as well as stream to an off-site NVR over the Internet which is great for backup. So basically my video feeds are recorded locally on the DVR and remotely on my remote NVR. But, if I look at the price for 16 cameras alone, with no DVR, you can see why the Q-See is such bad quality… to bundle the DVR with the cameras for almost the same cost as the cameras alone, it makes sense that they have no funding for quality development and still retain any profit margin.
I have the same concerns as all of you… would love SKD. My biggest request was an iPhone app to view my 16 cam DVR (Q-See). Finally they released on last week and it works excellent. Make and released by Hikvision…. surprised to see that no one has mentioned Hikvision since they are the software developers for Q-See. After loading the iPhone app (search iVMS-4500 on app store) decided to look at other client viewing solutions, and on Hikvision site (Eglish tab) there was a client also called iVMS-4500. installed it and it is 1000 times better than any Q-SEE front end. and works with all features of my DVR…. try it out…. I’m not a Q-See supported at all, and have almost trashed my DVR for something else with a better client side viewer, I want a Apple/MAC client, but we know that won’t happen from ActiveX developers.
Thanks for posting Jeff! I set up a test machine and installed the “Client Software” package and found it also installed WinPcap, which is a network sniffing tool commonly used by security researchers. What it’s doing in a client software package is a rather disturbing question. I also couldn’t get it to find my DVR on the network, which it may be using WinPcap to do (although there are better ways of doing auto-discovery). In any event, the software looks nice, if I could get it to work. I’ll keep tinkering.
I went through the manual (very important), which didn’t say anything about winPcap (a little concerning)… I created an “area” and added my DVR device to it. I tried both HC and ME modes and got errors. Meanwhile the browser based ActiveX management solution works fine on that machine. How did you end up configuring the software to see your Q-See DVR? … or did you just check out the iVMS-4500 software and forgo the “client software” package all together? Oh, one final question, did you have to update your DVR firmware to the latest version to make this work? What version firmware are you running?
Sorry, Client is iVMS-4000 (not 4500) and I’m using the QSC26416 DVR (16 camera). latest build, I have installed is V2.1 build 090903. I had already installed this prior to loading client.
Just installed client and it worked, not configuring other than pointing it to the IP of my box and using port 8000 which all the clients seem to require.
Wow, I must have been really tired this morning. It actually is the iVMS-4000 package I installed. In fact, it’s the only package they have! Anyway, I’m thinking my QSD2316 16 camera DVR may be one model too old or too low on the product totem pole for this software to work. I’ll keep fiddling with it though because the software does look amazing compared to the DVR’s native solution.
Heya guys, Tim here again. I just wanted to mention that Q-See just released CMS v1.6.0.0. It has couple of new features but no real bug fixes or true Win 7 support. Also, the interface isn’t drawing correctly on my screen and the program will restart itself after about five minutes. I ran into this problem with earlier releases and it usually requires a complete registry purge of anything CMS related and a re-install to fix.
Terrific.
I am downloading iVMS-4000 at the moment and it’s taking forever but I’ll give it a shot and see what happens. I also noticed an SDK on Hikvisions web site and D/L’ed that as well. There might be something useful in there.
One of these days I am going to try and console in or crack that DVR open to see if it’s running on an x86 architecture. If so, that could open up some interesting possibilities.
Hey Tim,
Nice! I still haven’t been able to get the iVMS-4000 package to work with my DRV, and the ActiveX browser object version of the contorl console is all messed on all my computers as well. If you crack it and/or root it, I’m definitely interested in hearing about your endeavors!
Amal,
I plan on diving into it this weekend. I’ll post an update when I have more info.
Hey Amal,
I opened up my QSD2316L today to see what makes it tick. I didn’t have any luck getting in via the serial port probably because it’s used strictly for PTZ camera control; or maybe there’s some hidden key combo to put it into console mode. I tried all baud rates, parity, and flow control settings but no joy.
So here’s what I found.
The heart of the DVR is a Grain Media GM8180 ARM based SoC (System on a chip). It was designed for digital video solutions like the QSD2316L. Grain Media offers a Linux SDK for it and there’s a data sheet here: http://www.grain-media.com/html/documentation/GM8180_GM-2007-10.pdf
The DVR also has an Atmel AT89S52 8k flash chip, four nextchip NVP1004 4-channel decoder chips (16-channels total), and a nextchip NVC1600D chip that I couldn’t find any information on. There are two Hynix DRAM chips but I didn’t look them up, and there are several other support chips that are no doubt for streaming or decoding multimedia, LAN support, alarm outputs, etc…
The bottom line here is that the QSD2316L is a custom and proprietary DVR and there really isn’t a whole lot that can be done with it unless you’re a hardware engineer with a lot of free time and resources.
The best news is that there are a total of four SATA ports and three SATA power connectors. This means it can accommodate three hard drives or two hard drives and a DVD burner.
I took a photo of the inside and scribbled a few notes on it in case anyone gets curious: http://picasaweb.google.com/oritpro/QSeeQSD2316L#5450960850036080066
From a hardware perspective, my Q-See QSD 2316L has been 100% reliable but sadly CMS and the Internet Explorer interface just doesn’t cut it. I didn’t have any luck with iVMS-4000, it’s just not made for this DVR. Wireshark confirmed that there is an authentication problem, they’re not talking the same language.
Eventually I am going to build an x86 based DVR, install Win 7 and Argus, and drop kick this thing into the nearest dumpster. It’s just not worth the time to make it right.
Hey Tim,
Wow. Really nice work! Thanks for posting your exploits with your DVR 🙂 What kind of camera cards / IP servers are you planning on using with your wired cameras? Have you used Argus before? I demo’d it with some IP cameras I already had installed at another site and the video feeds kept crashing on me. The watchdog would recover things, but every time they crashed I’d get a motion notice… it was like six times an hour. Have you looked into any other solutions?
Thanks Amal. At least now we can put to rest any ideas about modifying the hardware.
I haven’t really spec’d out the new system yet, it’s pretty low on my priority list because I am remodeling my house and will be installing new windows this year. When I am ready, I’ll probably pick up a couple of 4-chan. PCIe capture cards from Bluecherry.net, and stick them in a low profile Core-2 quad system.
As for Argus, I was using it with a single wireless camera I installed in my detached garage and did have trouble with it crashing once in a while. I was using an older version without the facial recognition feature, and was hoping the new version was more stable. That camera is now used for Lego Mindstorms projects since I can run it on battery power for quite awhile.
Q-see told me they’d have a Win7 compatible version of CMS out by March 2010. Instead they released a minor rev with a new feature or two. This doesn’t look promising. Why is it that surveillance equipment is so expensive, yet the lowest quality form of electronics out there? I once owned a Lorex system that was a lot worse than Q-Sees, a lot worse. And when it broke six weeks after I bought it, Lorex wanted me to pay shipping and handling to and from there only service center in America, New York!
I couldn’t tell you why prices are so high for DVR gear, except maybe that its a niche market compared with not as much churn as say, the consumer PC market. By and large I think they can charge what they do because they can get it, and most store fronts and home owners that want to deploy a security solution don’t give a crap about network connectivity (although that requirement is climbing the ladder). For the most part, store and home owners want a screen they can look at that shows them what’s up, and a simple/reliable system they can go to when something happens. For a stand alone DVR, my Q-See has performed adequately. It’s just the network connectivity that totally sucks.
I used the latest version of Argus with my cameras and I didn’t even have the face rec turned on. About once every 5 minutes it would run the CPU up to 100% and crash on me. I tried using my cheap linksys cameras with it, as well as my $420 ACTi cameras. Both cause the same problem. Who knows though, it may be the fact they are IP cameras. Maybe they put their really stable code writing skills into hardware capture card routines. A lot of A/V companies seem to have a hard time dealing with the nuances of IP networking.
I purchased a 2316L with 8 cameras from Cosco back in Jan 2009. apart from the Active X issue, within 4 months the cameras began to fade and white wash. Evidentally, the image chips were bleeding badly to adjacent pixels. Q-see replaced all but one camera in June and August 2009, but now (April 2010) the cameras are faded again. I had many (many) communications (both TS online and phone) about this issue and back in 2009 they were sympathetic and responsive. I contacted TS-online about the fading again (April 2010) and got a response “we will pass the info to management” nothing else.
My cousin also purchased the same system in Jan 2009 and had the same camera fading issues. Anyone seen the same?
I’ve not seen it, however my cameras are Sony cameras. They made a big deal about there being “real Sony cameras” on the Costco website (I bought online). Are your cameras made by QSee?
Yes, Amal. The 8 cameras were their own make. I have since added 4 more Sony cameras and they wre just fine. I am yest to hear from their TS. I think it’s “toyota” copycat
Joram, is the sun hitting your cameras at any point in the day? CCD’s are very sensitive and can be damaged by sunlight or even excessive heat and humidity.
I’ve had ten Q-See cameras mounted outside for about a year 1/2 now and they’ve held up quite well.
Seems like you are a fan of Open Source development. Look into ZoneMinder, a linux based home CCTV suite.
I used Zoneminder for about three years before buying the Q-See system. While ZM works pretty well, it can be a bit maintenance intensive and difficult to troubleshoot when something goes wrong. And things do go wrong, usually with the database. The Q-See has been the most trouble free for me despite some issues with the client software.
Amal,
I figured out why the CMS software would not run on my Win 7 HTPC. If you’ll recall in an earlier post, CMS was complaining that the resolution was less than 1024×768 even though it was 1920×1080. This misleading error message was caused by the DPI setting set to 150%. I rolled it back to 125% and it runs fine. I attached a second monitor next to the TV for monitoring the cameras.
Finally, after almost a year and 1/2, I have my security system set up the way I wanted.
dont know if anyone has posted this or not, but this link has instructions on how to get your Q-see system working on your blackberry with a downloadable app called Bplayer, i havent downloaded it yet cause i havent had the chance to, and i am currently using the Q-see 2416 dvr, i was able to view it live on my HTC Evo phone that runs android with a program called supercam that is downloadable from the Android Market. The Bplayer program for the blackberry is only downloadable onto your blackberry through Blackberry Desktop Manager. Hope this helps, and good luck. heres the following link to the instructions on doing this
http://www.q-see.com/files/ResourceFiles/QSD9004%20Smart%20Phone%20Access%20Blackberry.pdf
Tim, your Jan 16th, 2010 post was the best. Thanks Man!
Just a question is the IVMS-4000 software compatible with all DVR systems if not were could i find a list of DVR’s that will work
It didn’t work for my DVR so I would assume the answer is no.
so then i can rule out the samsung shr-216- as well as the avtech dvr’s as it will no work
Crap product from a CRAP company…
Oh, yeah it installed okay and it looks like it’s working fine… a year or two goes by and things seem ok… Then one day there’s an event… possibly a theft and you stop the recording and go back to the day of the event and see the thief and then JUST GO AHEAD AND TRY TO GET THE DANG IMAGE!!!!! What may have worked originally will likely NOT WORK WHEN YOU REALLY NEED IT!!!
Their SW design is crap, their support is crap, their products are crap… ok… this sounds like a rant. You’d be as upset with this company AS I AM WHEN YOU ARE ROBBED AND CANNOT GET THE PICS TO THE POLICE!!!
So I guess you can say I was robbed twice? STAY AWAY FROM THESE IDIOTS!
I found the SDK in this chinese site:
http://wenku.baidu.com/view/5ef964020740be1e650e9afd.html
Interesting… it looks like you have to sign up for an account to download. If anyone can get this document, I’ll “host and post” it on this blog entry.
After multiple attempts I finally resolved DVR connectivity on my Blackberry Bold 9780 running OS 6.0.448. After upddating the DVR’s (QSDR04RTC-320) firmware to version 101203 for device D9004-46S and installing the latest version of ASee-2.0 I was able to see my cameras perfectly.
Hi! I’m with y’all on expanding the capabilities of these devices. There’s a group of people that have gotten into some of the 4 and 8 channel DVRs and it turns out they run Linux, so I would expect Q-See to release the source. Progress has been made regardless, though, and ftp has been ported. They’ve also found a way to get still images. Check out the group and join us in the conquest and development of the Q-See hardware! (In a good way)
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/q_see_hack/
-Jack
I just bought a QS408 8 camara system all I get is a screen saying video loss
any help would be appreciated
Kleve
Not really sure we can help you, but I’d check the following 1) the cameras themselves have power. 2) the video ports the cameras are connected to are the correct ones for the video feeds you are viewing on screen. 3) try connecting and powering only one camera and see if that works.
Im using a qsee 8 port pci card with win xp, The active x is ok but like every one else here its pretty weak. I use ultra vnc to remote in and make config changes. Using android to view remotely from a 7inch tablet. I am soon workig on an ftp upload software that will monitor a specified folder and upload new content. The superdvr software can actually send attachments via email so you can always setup a large email box for recordings. Im not complaining I love the qsee product and software qsee is catering to economical customers who do not want to spend a big bunch on cameras. If you want all the bells and whistles hunker down and get ready to spend some serious cash on geovision or axsis.
Another one of the weak points is you cannot monitor audio remotely via active x program. I have audio devices connected to several of my audio ports but audio can only be monitored on the local DVR server. That sux considering all of my video monitoring is done remotely. Ill have to install a separate software to monitor audio, if it will even work.
is there a iMac app to run for q-see
I’m currently using super cam pro for my iPhone /ipads
can’t find a definitive app for iMac
anybody???
I think your best bet is to use the web interface on your iMac.